Thanks to Ruth:

The Charlie Rose Show: Continued

Cinderella Man

2005 Charlie Rose Inc.

...Angelo Dundee, who we haven't mentioned, was there to help as a technical adviser with the boxing and with Russell, but he also wound up being really helpful.

PAUL GIAMATTI: Huge.

RON HOWARD: . with me and with Paul.

CHARLIE ROSE: About what goes on in the corner.

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL GIAMATTI: . he had phrases for different things and he had.

RUSSELL CROWE: For everything.

PAUL GIAMATTI: He had a different phrase for everything. But things you could do with him in the corner with the coins.

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL GIAMATTI: . face, to bring down the swelling, yeah. I mean, he was an invaluable resource. He basically was my character, kind of.

CHARLIE ROSE: He helped you with, what, moves?

RUSSELL CROWE: No, he did -- I mean, he was my trainer. I mean, I actually had younger guys, who were the guys that I would physically do things with, but Angelo was the one who set the program, Angelo was the one who exacerbated, from my natural style, the parts of it that matched up with Braddock, you know. He`s the thing. He creates you, not necessarily to see everything as a boxer. He creates you to react to what he tells you to, you know, immediately that you hear it. So he can see, because he`s got a great mind for the sport. He can watch another boxer and then he can say to you, these are his three principal bad habits. This is how you`re going to beat him.

CHARLIE ROSE: By the way, he was the trainer for Muhammad Ali.

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL CROWE: Fifteen championships.

(CROSSTALK)

CHARLIE ROSE: So what did he find in your natural whatever instincts that matched up with Braddock?

RUSSELL CROWE: Well, the thing is, pretty much everything. I`ve seen him on sports shows and stuff say that, you know, the arsenal that I had was, you know, everything that Jim had plus a little bit more speed or whatever, but I think maybe the key -- and this was the funny thing -- because it ended up damaging my shoulder was the left hook. I had a very strong left hook from a very short point, you know.

CHARLIE ROSE: Sort of like that.

RUSSELL CROWE: Yeah. But so, you`re in -- that`s your leading hand, but you can drop your shoulder and push from there.

PAUL GIAMATTI: We know he had surgery six weeks before.

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL CROWE: I had a subluxation of the shoulder, dislocation, it popped back in. So the actual dislocation wasn`t the bad thing. It was when it went back in, it broke bone; it went in so hard. So that was when the actual problem started.

CHARLIE ROSE: Beyond that, what did you learn about boxing that you didn`t know?

RUSSELL CROWE: Mate, that`s a really, really long answer. A massive amount of information in detail. And.

CHARLIE ROSE: About the rhythm of it and about the.?

RUSSELL CROWE: Came to love it. Came to love doing it. Came to love being inside it. You know, understand, though, that I`ve also taken now as many punches that I ever want to take in my life. I`m done with that. You know? And I`m likely done with the desire to know about it.

It`s a funny thing, because now I know about it. It doesn`t hold that type of fascination for me anymore. You know? And I know what I can do with it. So now I can just put it away.

RON HOWARD: You know who contributed to this a little bit also in a really interesting way? You know, Brian Grazer produced the movie, my partner Brian, you know him well.

CHARLIE ROSE: Sure.

RON HOWARD: You know how he likes to meet with people and who had nothing to do with movies and stuff like that?

(CROSSTALK)

RON HOWARD: Well, Norman Mailer is one of the guys that some years ago he met, and he was having dinner with him in New York before -- when we were in rehearsals, and started talking to Norman Mailer about the movie, mostly asking him about the depression, but suddenly Norman started talking about boxing. And of course Norman has written about it. He also into quite a bit in his late 30s and really took the sport seriously.

CHARLIE ROSE: I think he got into some small thing -- didn`t he do some -- got into a ring for a joke on Long Island?

(CROSSTALK)

RON HOWARD: He may have.

RUSSELL CROWE: So much for a joke.

RON HOWARD: At any rate, he came out and visited us for a day or so. And it was fascinating. We watched the actual Braddock-Baer fight. I wanted to hear him talk about it and analyze, you know, in sort of literary terms. And Akiva Goldsman was there too. And it was interesting. But what was really intriguing was talking about what he learned about boxing, starting in his late 30s, already an extremely intelligent, well-educated man, and he started talking about rhythm and creating patterns to try to break things down. You know, it was very helpful for me as a director to have had that conversation that Brian set up.

RUSSELL CROWE: It was an incredible thing that was very, very insightful, I think, and also very helpful for Craig Bierko, who was playing Max Baer. You know, he said that to his, just, you know, estimation, that Braddock went into the ring with four people on his back: You know, his wife and his three kids. Gould wasn`t on his back; he was side by side with him.

Max Baer went into the ring with the desire to have each one of these 38,000 people around him think of him highly. And Jimmy only had one fight to pull off, and that night, Max just wasn`t focused, because he took all of those people on his back into the ring.

CHARLIE ROSE: It is true that Max Baer killed two people?

RUSSELL CROWE: Yes.

PAUL GIAMATTI: They died subsequently.

RON HOWARD: One died in the ring, and one die subsequently.

RUSSELL CROWE: Frankie Campbell died in the ring, and the other fellow died after.

CHARLIE ROSE: Here is the scene in which Joe tells Jim he`s been given one more fight. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL GIAMATTI: Got you a fight.

RUSSELL CROWE: Ha-ha, go to hell.

PAUL GIAMATTI: Oh, come on, you want it, don`t you?

RUSSELL CROWE: Oh, are we going to bring this up with the boxing commission or not?

PAUL GIAMATTI: Yes, yes, and they`ll sanction it. This one fight, and one fight only. It`s not a comeback, right? It`s just -- it`s one fight.

RUSSELL CROWE: Why?

PAUL GIAMATTI: Because of who you`re fighting.

RUSSELL CROWE: How much?

PAUL GIAMATTI: Just once, ask me who it is you`re fighting?

RUSSELL CROWE: How much?

PAUL GIAMATTI: $250. You`re at the big show at the Garden tomorrow night. You`ll fight Corn Griffin, Jimmy. The number two heavyweight contender in the world. (INAUDIBLE) championship bout.

RUSSELL CROWE: You know, Joe, this ain`t funny.

PAUL GIAMATTI: No, it`s not. And it ain`t no favor, either. Griffin`s opponent got cut, and he couldn`t fight. So we had to find somebody that we could throw in in a day`s notice -- nobody legit but -- nobody would take a fight with Griffin without training. So I told them use the angle Griffin`s going to knock out a guy never been knocked out. Jimmy.

RUSSELL CROWE: Are you on the level, Joe?

PAUL GIAMATTI: Come on, always.

RUSSELL CROWE: For $250, I would fight your wife.

PAUL GIAMATTI: Now you`re dreaming.

RUSSELL CROWE: And your grandmother at the same time.

PAUL GIAMATTI: Teeth in or teeth out?

RUSSELL CROWE: Take them out.

PAUL GIAMATTI: Then you`re dead. You`re down, you`re gone.

RUSSELL CROWE: 250 bucks?

PAUL GIAMATTI: 250 bananas, Jim. Come here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE ROSE: How much of that was improv and how much of that was scripted?

PAUL GIAMATTI: It was more.

RUSSELL CROWE: I think we shouldn`t give away any secrets.

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL CROWE: The screenplay was written by Akiva Goldsman, and we just went to work and we did.

(CROSSTALK)

RON HOWARD: Once in a while, there would be a little -- as our cinematographer, Salvatore Totino, would say, "once in a while, they`d add a little sauce."

PAUL GIAMATTI: A lot of sauce sometimes.

CHARLIE ROSE: Tell me, what went beyond the script there? Which was.

PAUL GIAMATTI: In that actual scene?

CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. How about the little sort of punch?

(CROSSTALK)

RON HOWARD: You did it one time, and then I said do that again because I wanted -- I saw it. I missed it in the camera and I reframed the shot.

RUSSELL CROWE: We timed it originally from -- for another place, where it was not used.

RON HOWARD: Right, yeah.

RUSSELL CROWE: That was in the boxing club. Now, I did it to you.

PAUL GIAMATTI: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah!

RUSSELL CROWE: And you were turning.

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL CROWE: Technically in the script, that`s your story. That`s a couple of days later or whatever.

RON HOWARD: But sometimes I would leave the camera running, and several times, you know, they would fill the moment or I`d see something happening, and I wouldn`t cut.

RUSSELL CROWE: Sometimes we would just take the cameras home with us at night.

(LAUGHTER)

RON HOWARD: In this film, there are several instances where the endings of scenes sort of turned into improvs that were really.

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL CROWE: We didn`t call them improvs, because quite often, the improvisational aspect of what you`re doing will actually come out in the rehearsal, so, therefore, it becomes part of the scene.

(CROSSTALK)

CHARLIE ROSE: But at some point it was improvisational?

RUSSELL CROWE: But here`s the thing, right?

CHARLIE ROSE: You rehearsed, right?

RUSSELL CROWE: I think -- you`re working with this guy, right? He`s never going to say, don`t try it. He`s never going to say, don`t jump off and give me something possibly spectacular. He`s always going to say, "off you go," and jump off.

CHARLIE ROSE: But is what we`re talking about, whatever it is, just instinctive experience or qualities of a good actor, that`s it?

RUSSELL CROWE: Bottom line.

PAUL GIAMATTI: I guess so, yeah.

RUSSELL CROWE: If you`ve done your research, you know the character and you (INAUDIBLE), and you also, you know.

PAUL GIAMATTI: Working with people. When you have those two guys together.

RUSSELL CROWE: Like understanding of freedom, or whatever, or that simple no-rules thing, you know. You know, a guy like Paul is not going to throw you a ball that`s irrelevant, you know what I mean? And that`s the whole point. If you can stay in there and you can throw it as hard as you want, as long as it`s pure and true and relevant to the moment, then it`s all great.

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL GIAMATTI: ...to catch a crazy ball like that, too, though.

(CROSSTALK)

RON HOWARD: And I try to work with two cameras a lot, because it also gives the actors a kind of confidence, and whenever it`s possible, it gives them a feeling, that hey, if I try something, it tactually could wind up in the film, because they will cover it and I will get it. So it gives a kind of spontaneity.

There is a moment between Russell and Renee Zellweger -- and there are a lot of great moments that are beautifully written, well-scripted, and they took it to its, you know, its supreme level.

But there is a moment at the end of one scene where Russell in one take -- it was one of the last takes as I recall -- he became particularly emotional in this one moment where he was -- and he apologized to her. And Renee`s locked in on Russell, leaned in, and I`m standing by the monitors, I couldn`t believe what I was seeing, because, you know, we never rehearsed this and we`ve never done anything, and she said, "no, no," she didn`t want to see her man suffering like that. And she actually went over -- and you brought her over, and she sat in your lap. It wound up being -- I mean, I`m emotional now thinking about it. I was emotional at the monitor.

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL CROWE: And I just wanted to kiss Renee Zellweger. I found a way, in pretty much every single scene, to get some kind of kiss, you know. I think there`s only one scene.

CHARLIE ROSE: Just for a kiss, you made her feel sorry for you.

RUSSELL CROWE: Man, I`ll do anything for a kiss.

CHARLIE ROSE: With Renee Zellweger.

RUSSELL CROWE: Come one, Charlie! Get real! Are you from Texas, Charlie?

CHARLIE ROSE: I`ve been there.

(LAUGHTER)

CHARLIE ROSE: All right, this is Jim -- this is where you discover you have got some boxing in you -- I assume this is the Griffin fight, right? Here it is.

RON HOWARD: This is his comeback fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s two rounds more than I thought he was going to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s a half a step behind you. Do you feel that? Pop, pop, bang. Stick with it! Stick with it!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six minutes of fury so far. (INAUDIBLE) can hold back an avalanche. He hits him with the left. (INAUDIBLE).

PAUL GIAMATTI: Go on in, Jim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jimmy is finally moving his head.

PAUL GIAMATTI: (INAUDIBLE) now!

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

PAUL GIAMATTI: Where the hell have you been, Jimmy Braddock?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE ROSE: Was that a more important fight than the championship fight?

RUSSELL CROWE: That fight, in terms of his comeback?

CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.

RUSSELL CROWE: I don`t know. To me, you know, the most important point in Jim`s whole life is when he paid back the money to the relief office. You know? That shows you just so much more about who he was as a man, and the fact that he was a boxer or that he had children or that it was this time period, or whatever, you know.

CHARLIE ROSE: And when he took the kid back and made him give up.

RUSSELL CROWE: No, you see, that movement, you know.

RON HOWARD: That`s just good parenting.

RUSSELL CROWE: That`s good parenting, and you`d hope that from everybody. But you know, there`s a moral strength in feeling he had to pay back that debt.

You know, he had to pay back the debt because he believed in the country. He went, wow, what a great country I live in. I`m stuck, I`m destitute, but I can go to a place and they will give me money, you know.

RON HOWARD: To keep you going.

RUSSELL CROWE: To keep me going, right? And that will give me time, that will buy me time to get myself back on my feet. And when he got back on his feet, he thought it was a moral imperative to go down and pay back the money.

And you know what, Charlie? I own the receipt? It came up on a sports auction thing while we were still shooting, right? Here is this guy, you know, it`s like -- it was just listed as receipt, you know, that was in the wallet of James J. Braddock or something, you know, when he died. And I`m looking at it going, that`s the thing. That`s the actual thing. So he carried that until the day he died.

CHARLIE ROSE: That`s great.

RUSSELL CROWE: So now I have it, and I`m going to look after it.

CHARLIE ROSE: Did you watch -- I assume the championship fight`s on tape, on film?

RON HOWARD: Yeah. It is.

CHARLIE ROSE: Black and white, on film. Yeah. So you watched that and.?

RON HOWARD: Did I watch it?

CHARLIE ROSE: A thousand times, I know.

RON HOWARD: We edited it. In other words, I was going to distill the fight into seven rounds. So I defined on paper what I thought I wanted to accomplish dramatically.

RUSSELL CROWE: (INAUDIBLE) beginning of the process. Because this was like a choreographic solo (ph), you know. We start with it, and we`re working with a guy, Steve Lucescu, and I said, Steve, somebody`s got to do the dog`s work. Somebody has actually got to get a pen, a piece of paper, and write out seven-and-a-half thousand moves of choreography, because then we`ll know what we don`t want to do. So it`s a really tough job, but somebody`s got to do it.

So like the first fight is like that, and then other things would come up and ways would come that we developed the fight.

And the championship fight, I was having a lot of problems with it. The moves didn`t look right. The thing wasn`t working. It wasn`t flowing. And I kept coming back to, well, the fight itself has got all the bits that I want to use. So then Ron actually took it and edited it together. It was like the greatest hits.

CHARLIE ROSE: Oh, I see.

RON HOWARD: I took all the highlights, all the great punches, and edited into the sort of the bits of the seven rounds that I wanted to -- I wanted to show.

CHARLIE ROSE: To choreograph for the.

RON HOWARD: And took a couple of nights with the editor, Dan Hanley, and we built this thing, and, wow, that`s an exciting -- that`s a very exciting, you know, presentation of the fight. And they basically took it, developed it from there.

RUSSELL CROWE: So we took that, and then with a new choreographer, a guy called Nick Powell, who was brought in specifically to focus just on the championship fight, while Steven and the other boys finished all the other fights. He took that idea from Ron and expanded that, and gave us the ins and outs, and the beginnings and ends of rounds and stuff.

And went also to "Ring" magazine and looked at the round-by-round descriptions, and matched it up. So everything along the line is all a line to the reality, as we can make it.

RON HOWARD: And it was also interesting to listen to the radio broadcast. There`s a lot of fascinating research available on this.

CHARLIE ROSE: On the fight?

RON HOWARD: On the fight and also the.

(CROSSTALK)

RON HOWARD: But you know what was great? The woman who plays -- the actor, Paddy Considine, who plays the character Mike, his wife Sara is played by Rosemarie DeWitt. Rosemarie is Braddock`s granddaughter, and she`s a New York theater actress. She`s done some television, and some films, but she`s worked a lot in theater. And Jane Jenkins, our casting director, said, would you like to meet Braddock`s granddaughter? She`d like to audition. And I said, is she right for anything? Well, maybe this role.

She came in and first of all wowed us with the audition. I mean, just knocked it completely out of the park. OK, so she`s got chops. She can play it. And how wonderful is this to be able to have Braddock`s granddaughter? I mean, so -- but as we went into it and got into rehearsal, she said, "you know, I have access to some letters that my grandfather wrote to my grandmother," and she got Xeroxed copies of them. And they told such an amazing love story. They told so much about -- it was a period of time really when Jim was at the bottom. He was struggling. He was fighting hurt. He was on the road. And the letters he wrote to her every two or three days were moving.

RUSSELL CROWE: On hotel stationery from New Orleans or San Francisco or Kansas City, you know.

RON HOWARD: And it was just going bad. Everything was going bad, and yet you could see that without an ounce of self-pity, that he was -- he was suffering because he felt like he was letting her down. He went as far as apologizing a couple of times.

RUSSELL CROWE: Which is the thing that I love, the thing that you were just talking about before.

RON HOWARD: Wound up in that scene.

RUSSELL CROWE: That thing that he was always totally prepared in his life, particularly when it came to his wife and children, to take the blame for whatever it was, you know, for whatever it was that`s not making your life great, it`s my fault, and I`ll sort it out. I just thought it was incredibly endearing.

But the way he finished the letters, such a romantic -- and here`s this boxer, right? He has 220 fights under his belt, you know? This guy, and he was.

CHARLIE ROSE: How would he finish them? Just.

RUSSELL CROWE: Oh, man, it`s so beautiful, you know, like "the only beat in my heart, you know, is for my love, and I`ll be with you again shortly." Just stuff that you could -- was gorgeous, you know. I`m just paraphrasing.

CHARLIE ROSE: All right. Here`s a scene in which Renee Zellweger, who plays Braddock`s wife, Mae, shares her concerns about the return to fighting, and here it is, because of the fear of what Max Baer could do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RENEE ZELLWEGER: Not that I`m not grateful or proud. I am. I`m so proud of you. But we got off easy when you broke that hand. We`re back to even now.

RUSSELL CROWE: Yeah, right, and nine months from now, we`re back in the same boat.

RENEE ZELLWEGER: Baby, please! We just don`t have anything left to risk.

RUSSELL CROWE: Mae, Mae, there`s still some juice in these legs, and I can still take a few. Baby, please. Just let me take it in the ring. At least I know who`s hitting me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RON HOWARD: Renee so desperately understood the character and loved the story. And, look, she`s the absolute center of just about any movie she wants to make. And she wanted to do this with Russell for years. She loved the story, and she just kept saying to me, "this is a story I want to be a part of. This is a movie that people really need to see. They really should see this film."

And, you know, what she brought with her to the set every day was kind of hard to describe in terms of just who he is as a person, her own brand of leadership, through just showing up and being that positive and that excited about the work. And then, the nuance, the detail, the intelligence of the performance is, you know, was really something to behold.

CHARLIE ROSE: When you look at the boxing, which we`ve been talking about, and you compare it to things you have seen before.

RON HOWARD: Right.

CHARLIE ROSE: I mean, did you do something different in the end? Or was it simply the extension of what you said, you got good actors and it will flow right into it? Or did you end up with sort of a new approach or new result?

RON HOWARD: I can`t say it`s a new approach or a new result. There`s been a lot of great work done, but I`m very proud of it. And it is cinematically expressive. So we didn`t just get in and sort of shoot a couple of over-the-shoulders and a couple of wide shots. We did find -- with the cinematographer, Salvatore Totino and I, we did tests, we did editorial tests shot on video, that I would take back to the editors, months before we started shooting, examining ways to approach it. Some of it -- we`d get two stunt guys to come and do a choreographed round, and I`d shoot that and cover it, and then I`d have real boxers come in and spar, and I`d shoot that. And we would edit all that together, and just test and test and test, just trying to understand ways in which we can be more expressive.

We found various lenses that seemed to create a slightly different perception of what it was like to be in the ring. We used those lenses at key times. I tried to graduate the sort of the level of the camera work or -- so that in early fights, things were very, very simple. In certain fights, it became really like tunnel vision, very, very personal to Jim.

The last fight, because it had taken on sort of an importance on a national level, the camera moves started swinging from outside the ring with the crowd in, because it was all their energy, the crowd`s energy sort of weighing in on -- and making important what Jim was going through and what these guys were doing in the center of the ring.

So you know, I worked it for months, and I had a lot of anxiety about it. But at the end of the day, my confidence level was in a great actor in the ring, in all honesty.

CHARLIE ROSE: So what do you walk away from learning about in a film like this? What do you, you know?

PAUL GIAMATTI: Oh, my God. Well, I mean, it was the opportunity to get to work with -- getting to watch him and work with him was an extraordinary thing to watch a level of confidence and relaxation and all those kinds of things, were amazing.

CHARLIE ROSE: That`s what interests me. I mean, Russell is going to give me a hard time, I know, I can see it coming, but it is what one professional looks for in another professional.

PAUL GIAMATTI: Well, absolutely. Really, I mean, it`s like you walk in and do this with him, and it`s suddenly that much easier. But getting to study what he does, I mean, I was amazed at how few takes he did and how focused he was and how concentrated he was. I mean, it`s just the experience of getting to work with somebody like this, somebody like this. I mean, you know.

Do I learn anything? I`m too thick-headed to learn very much. You know, I just try to hang in there and do a decent job, you know.

CHARLIE ROSE: Listening to you, it sounds to me like at some point you want to direct.

RON HOWARD: I keep prodding.

CHARLIE ROSE: Because you`re so.

RUSSELL CROWE: Yeah, but the thing is, while there`s still the opportunity to do things in a collaboration of this nature, you know, I got -- I know who the band leader is, man. I`ll do it at a certain time, but it will be the right time, and it will be the natural time for me to do it.

You know, I like it. I still, you know, I love being a great leftenant, you know. I still have that sort of slight immaturity about me where I really don`t want responsibility for all of it. You know, and I`m totally fine with him having that.

When we worked together, this team that made this movie, you know, Akiva Goldsman, Brian Grazer, Ron and myself, where I kind of -- I don`t know, I suppose arrogantly and stupidly referred to that grouping as the Beatles. But there is such a harmonic in the room when we work, you know, that that`s the way I think about it, you know, it`s sort of a -- and to me, that`s a great privilege. And while that privilege is available to me, I think it`s kind of like really stupid to not, you know, not just.

(CROSSTALK)

CHARLIE ROSE: You`ve been prodding him?

RON HOWARD: Well, I have been prodding him. Because he`s got a great movie mind. You`ve got a great movie mind. He`s a great writer, his instincts are extraordinary.

But one of the things, when I talked about an actor sort of elevating everyone`s work around them, Russell is one of those guys. And I don`t know, since Russell came to America and really started doing lead roles in high-profile American movies, I don`t quite know what the statistics are, but if you look at how many of those directors have been nominated for Director`s Guild Awards or Academy Awards or Golden Globes, there`s a staggeringly high percentage of the directors of films where`s he`s lead who, you know, who do often defining work. So there`s a connection there.

CHARLIE ROSE: Russell`s band is -- this latest album you produced.

RUSSELL CROWE: Don`t bring the tone of the show down, Charlie. We just reached that peak.

(LAUGHTER)

RUSSELL CROWE: This record isn`t with a band. It`s just a solo record. The only way you can get it is by going to iTunes and downloading it. I know you have got a hard copy there, but it`s not actually available like that in any shops. We don`t have a traditional deal. So it`s just on iTunes, Russell Crowe, "My Hand, My Heart."

RON HOWARD: You were writing a lot of these songs while we were filming.

RUSSELL CROWE: One song, principally, "Raewyn," which is the (INAUDIBLE).

RON HOWARD: I remember you played it -- played it for me that one night.

(CROSSTALK)

RUSSELL CROWE: And "One Good Year," which I didn`t write, which is written by a guy from Maine, Slaid Cleaves, who was my thematic for the film.

RON HOWARD: Yeah, yeah.

RUSSELL CROWE: Just like -- because that was Braddock`s life. It was one good year, basically.

CHARLIE ROSE: What is great about this story is -- is all the things that Russell has said -- Braddock comes across, it is what happened to him afterwards. It`s the quality of his life, it is the nobility of his life, and it is a man who, in a sense, was -- was -- had all of those values.

What you see in this last scene is the wife and the kids listening to this championship fight, in which there was some fear by some people that he was going to get hurt badly -- not just lose, but get hurt badly.

RON HOWARD: Even kill.

CHARLIE ROSE: Even killed.

RON HOWARD: There were editorials written -- and Mae, by the way, only ever tried to watch one round of boxing in his entire career and ran from the arena years before.

(CROSSTALK)

CHARLIE ROSE: Roll tape. Here`s that scene:.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Braddock, to the left to the body (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mae...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s (INAUDIBLE).

Braddock stumbles away. Here`s that right again. They come together. Braddock swings a left and a right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he comes back with a left and a right of his own. Braddock sticks out a left. There, (INAUDIBLE). Another left, and a hard right by Braddock. (INAUDIBLE) for a moment. There`s that right again.

A hard right to Braddock. Braddock is hurt. His legs are gone.

Braddock sticks out a left, another left.

And there`s the bell!

James J. Braddock has exhibited a lot of heart here over 11 grueling rounds with the champion. Nobody expected him to last more than a few innings with Baer, yet here he is, and he`s held his own. But now we head into the championship rounds, folks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE ROSE: "Cinderella Man" opens on June 3rd, 2005, Friday night. My thanks to Ron and Paul and Russell. Thank you very much.

PAUL GIAMATTI: Thank you.

RON HOWARD: Pleasure.

RUSSELL CROWE: Thank you.

RON HOWARD: Thank you, thank you.

CHARLIE ROSE: Thank you for joining us. See you next time.

END

[Copy: Content and Programming Copyright 2005 Charlie Rose Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Transcription Copyright 2005 Voxant, Inc., which takes sole responsibility for the accuracy of the transcription. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material except for the user`s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon Charlie Rose and Voxant, Inc., copyrights or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.]

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